Oct. 11, 2021

151 - An exorcism in Arkansas!? (MYSTERY)

151 - An exorcism in Arkansas!? (MYSTERY)

Amy Stamatis was left paralyzed below the waist after she plunged from the second story of her Searcy home onto a brick patio in November 2006.
The circumstances of the incident were unusual. Stamatis had climbed into an open window and was sitting on th...

Amy Stamatis was left paralyzed below the waist after she plunged from the second story of her Searcy home onto a brick patio in November 2006.

The circumstances of the incident were unusual. Stamatis had climbed into an open window and was sitting on the sill when she fell. She insists that she did not jump...

But for months beforehand, Stamatis had been struggling with “dark thoughts.” She had heard voices telling her to kill herself and sought treatment from doctors and psychiatrists. The voices didn’t stop.


Timestamp   Speaker     Transcript

00:00.00    what_the_flip    For those you knew to the what the flip podcast we dive into hilariously interesting and explicit conversations around anime games, comics, movies, mysteries and all the sexiness of geek culture. With that said, get ready cause I'm Alex and you're listening to.

00:12.81    William     And I'm well let's go.

00:17.69    what_the_flip    What the flip now listeners as you know for the month of October we are celebrating halloween by doing a whole string of kind of horror and scary related episodes. We're going to be diving into demons. We're going to be diving into ghosts goblins wills pants. And more so yeah, actually got deep for it by d member. We're gonna say that conversation for another day. Um, okay, so will um, we're gonna part put your detective hat on.

00:37.87    William     Youlthough, you're the 1 dive into demons made getting ball deep into de.

00:53.30    what_the_flip    Going to be detective will again and inspector alex and for those of you listen to this this episode specifically for the first time detective will and inspector alex are 2 amazing detectives and they they normally find these mysteries and these unsolved mysteries and we really kind of within the space of.

00:53.24    William     Defect Inspect alex.

01:11.23    what_the_flip    I guess within an hour we kind of solve the solve the mystery you know some mysteries have taken decades and hundreds of years to be solved and some are still unsolved but we got another case today. So are you ready.

01:29.27    William     let's go let's let's solve well I'm not ready but I'm my friend inspector will is so he yeah, it's just 1 just 1 second just for like I need to call him on'm his p a just 1 second do do do.

01:34.76    what_the_flip    We'll get inspector will on the fucking line because inspector at detective all right? What the shitest phone beep hand I've ever heard hi Expect to will is a.

01:45.20    William     Ah, ah you this is inspector Wilmsmicon I gonna help.

01:51.74    what_the_flip    Sir inspector world I always detective you've been demoted. You've been high as detective alex here if you it's like Batman I'm I'm wearing the cow wearing your skin. Um, yeah, we've got another case detective wool.

01:56.80    William     Ah, you take it over mantle.

02:08.80    William     Oh perfect.

02:10.47    what_the_flip    Um, and it's 1 of those themes that I think are kind of your weak point and the 1 that you personally don't like and this is we're gonna be. We're gonna be diving into some demonic possibly demonic territory here.

02:17.87    William     Ah, oh okay, that I must be respectful or I will get haunted tonight.

02:28.10    what_the_flip    So um, so here here we go and this this came this came to us again and it's always in the early hours in the morning people can't just give it to us at lunchtime. So it in the early hours in morning but this report came in and basically a woman by the name of Amy Stama staatis.

02:38.84    William     Um, yeah.

02:47.57    what_the_flip    I think ah how to pronounce that is was actually left paralyzed below the waist after she actually plunged from a second story window from our home and landed straight onto a brick patio and this actually came back in November in 2006 so it's actually not that long ago. And the thing about this will is the circumstances here where they were. They were quite unusual. You know she had actually climbed up to this open window and was actually just sitting on it. You know, just looking out sitting on it minding her business and that's when she fell and she's still alive today. Um. Ah, she insists to everyone that she didn't jump so we got to kind of go back a little bit to kind of get a bit of context here and what I've kind of been able to dig up is that for for months actually beforehand she was struggling with you. You know quote unquote these dark thoughts is what she kind of said and she had been hearing these these weird voices telling her to you know, kill herself and stuff like that and some of the voices actually told her to sort you know, go and get treatment for doctors and psychiatists so he had this kind of duality of some. Darker thoughts and then just normal thoughts. But these do these weren't like thoughts in a head like oh I'm thinking this it was more like someone was actually whispering these things to her in her ear and the voices didn't stop at all and they got more I guess. More aggressive more towards the negative side kill yourself kill yourself. Yeah and she actually did go to doctors and psychiatrists and it just didn't help you know and she she she believed. She was going through like some type of mental breakdown I guess um and after she actually fell you know after this actually happened she was.

04:18.40    William     Oh really, oh shit. Okay.

04:36.53    what_the_flip    Lying in the hospital and it was just a you know random day she was lying in hospital bed and this woman just comes in a room you know to visit her and you know she was a bit mysterious and she had claims that she had the ability to you know. Raise the dead and heal the terminally ill through the power of prayer. So you know from the from the outset I'm thinking is you know, just another nut job and but you never know you never know where these stories will so this woman this mysterious woman she she saw something in.

04:56.24    William     Okay, okay, fine. Yeah.

05:13.49    what_the_flip    Er thematis that no 1 else had she saw demons. Well.

05:18.37    William     For Insider Eyes shit. Okay, that's God for inside's kind of fucked up but would you believe that sort of thing though. Like if you you like it's what a woman came up you and said I'm a ah whatever the whatever the called and then.

05:22.48    what_the_flip    Right? insider.

05:33.54    what_the_flip    Like a prayer healer isn't she she's a prayer Healer Spiritual healer. Um I don't know.

05:36.42    William     Yeah I guess if it hits us hits a point where it's so bad though. Maybe she's like yeah even if I don't even if I'm more I believe in the science. It's it you know? ah ah, kind of need something else because of.

05:49.47    what_the_flip    I do believe people can feel Energies. You know I do I do because I can do I've done that I think everyone's done it in their life. You know sometimes just talking to someone. You just get a weird vibe. A weird energy from them or. Sometimes you get really positive energy or someone that walks in the room they give off this energy. Um yeah I do believe in that stuff so shakara covid so I do believe in that I definitely do. Um.

06:07.63    William     Yeah, orurass and stuff like that and Che but your shaer here Trust nine.

06:25.25    what_the_flip    A Demon's come into it I don't know I don't know but um so the the window she fell from um ah yeah, like I said it was like 2 stories high so she was able to survive this at the time and um. She started to experience these kind of strange ailments seven months before her fall so she was wrapping up a um, you know she she worked as a med flight nurse at a baptist health medical center in little rock and. And she was you know just wrapping up a 24 hour shift and she was kind of tasked with treating a burn patient and after wheeling him into on like on the stretcher and kind of completing the report and writing all the all the facts down and stuff like that she found herself just. Wandering the halls of the emergency room aimlessly like just kind of like a zombie just wander around and around and she had like just completely suddenly forgot how to actually do her job and yeah, it's like something had come over her. Let's say.

07:26.45    William     Oh okay, then.

07:33.70    what_the_flip    Um, and she she actually said she actually and you know and I quote after I took care of him my mind went out the window. It was just blank so that that's ah I Guess there's a pun in there I guess in in some regard but um, still we don't know what's going on.

07:43.60    William     Um, oh. Does she just show Ho to I've done a long I've had a long um work day. The I 24 hour work shift I'll just.

07:51.93    what_the_flip    Um.

07:58.57    what_the_flip    That's what I'm thinking at the moment she's done a 24 hour shift I get fucked up at work after 3 hours. Ah, after oft after 1 thirty P m in the afternoon I am zoned out for the rest of my day come so tired.

08:02.47    William     Yeah, ah Dr Frias want a nap. Um, yeah, after breakfast. Yeah, it must be.

08:15.93    what_the_flip    24 hours 24 hour and and I'm assuming this isn't the first time she's done a 24 hour shift. You know nurses are demanding. Yeah, so my thoughts at a moment I'm I'm pointing to some type of hysteria from lack of sleep. Maybe.

08:21.26    William     Yeah I guess nurses and do that they do a lot. Don't they like they do weird hours as well. Don't they.

08:32.63    William     Dear.

08:35.70    what_the_flip    It definitely I've definitely experienced lack of sleep effects when they can be quite vivid. They can be quite so youn in there God be both of ah we got some demons going on in here. Um.

08:46.50    William     I I Just yawned as well I did I did as well timing's deepro us.

08:54.90    what_the_flip    Yeah, ah so anyway, so that was actually her final shift at a hospital and she was actually a marathon runner so she wasn't exactly like unfit or anything and she went home but she was just unable to run straight like she she tried to go out for a run. She just couldn't run. She was stumbling all the time. Again, this has happened to me well when I was in Dubai i. Ah yeah that the episode was pretty good but this actually happened to mean the buy there was 1 day when I went jogging I was just stumbling like I couldn't jog in a straight line. This is yet. It was almost like.

09:14.64    William     Your Dubai story guys. Check the Dubai story out. But yeah.

09:26.25    William     But Uncontra but Unnaturally like he wasn't to do his sleep. It wasn't.

09:32.15    what_the_flip    I had lost balance like my my internal balance was just not there. So every step I actually had to stop and like so I hold onto the wall like my and I felt fine I can um yeah, it was at night own an on Jo at night. But this is this is weird because this is kind of like hitting home a little bit here.

09:40.14    William     Did people look at you? Ah, ah.

09:51.61    what_the_flip    Um, she she not. It's not only that well she couldn't she can even perform like just standard task. You know like just picking out a clothes and and kind of just basic like day-to-day task so something was definitely going on.

09:56.57    William     Yeah, you, what's that her brain just her brain just went blank like she can't she can't remember what happened or her blank. Ah brain was just like she was moving. She's like a sleep walking sort of thing.

10:08.80    what_the_flip    Yeah I guess it was more akin to like malfunctioning like her brain is malfunctioning. It's kind of like taking massive chunks of data from her brain. So she can't actually operate properly. You know like ah you know in windows when you have registry files and you kind of like.

10:18.66    William     Fuck go down.

10:25.48    what_the_flip    Delete some and the winners can't operate properly kind of like that. Um, but she she you know she had a husband that she ended up telling her that you know she was having this kind of nervous breakdown and um and from that point moving forward. It kind of began this string of visits from doctors and psychiatric hospitals that she would go back and forth from. She was actually diagnosed with all these different mental illnesses and she said that the the doctors actually prescribed her antidepressants and cheat like and quote they were like candy and sorry like they were candy so they were kind of just you know in America I think it's quite a big thing.

10:57.59    William     Oh right did nothing? Yeah, but just they give you a shit to of them. They don't It's like parae tomorrow here doesn't read bill much. Yeah.

11:03.14    what_the_flip    Someone's got some type of thing here's antidepressant. Um, yeah here. Um, but will the voices continued and her behavior actually became even more Unpredictable. So ah. I Want to stop here quickly is do you remember the episode we did of the exorcist and was a 3 parter and you remember how the I forgot the ladies' name and listeners. You should check that out A 3 episode is a really long 1 It was absolutely fantastic. Story. But.

11:27.77    William     Ah, yeah, the.

11:39.91    what_the_flip    She was effectively kind of degrading over time and even after taking drugs and medication. It was just yeah yeah, um, and this is it sounds like this is happening here. She yeah have physically, she's starting to crumble.

11:44.20    William     Cheap the 1 not the college student that 1

11:51.80    William     Yeah, brainful air.

11:57.80    what_the_flip    Mentally, she's getting worse and just erratic is it seems like these are the signs of possession. Maybe I don't know I don't know but less.

12:02.44    William     Yeah I guess is just is just think that's like a theme of possession where like you start like because it's in fits.

12:10.41    what_the_flip    It's like your it's like it's ripping away at your yourself like you're starting to like I can't You're not in control of your body and you're not in control of your mind and this thing is kind of taking over and it's that transitional period where you're just deterioating losing control.

12:15.12    William     O here.

12:25.68    William     Yeah, because she's an athlete as well. Yeah, she's an athlete so she's not like us thinking is it because like a weak mind sort of thing but she's an athlete so she knows how to mentally kind of breakthrough barriers and stuff like that. So.

12:25.88    what_the_flip    It must be terrifying for people that go through these things. Um, but that's what I'm thinking now.

12:38.56    what_the_flip    Yeah I wouldn't say she was an athlete I think she was just she was a fit person she was she was you know like me or no dealll you Whatever you know someone that wants to you know, keep fit they go they go does Marathons or that goes goes to regular exercise. She know she's she she's not she's not a pushover by any means. But um.

12:42.75    William     And or I are o.

12:57.21    what_the_flip    She she actually ended up like stripping out all of her clothes. Um at a family gathering with her in-laws. Um.

13:01.84    William     Oh so she did little toy lost her brain like she because I Um, umm so i'mssuming that's un characteristic but but like yeah yeah, so but it's kind of like she'd lost her brain function is something like someone was.

13:08.48    what_the_flip    Yeah I mean yeah, of course I would never do that to my indoors to start stripping Off. Um. Um, it was like another personality was Yay. It wasn't well I'm leaning more towards this I'm leaning more towards this idea of something's taking over her.

13:19.16    William     Kind of like so like Dementias or something like that like she just didn't know who she was or but kind of 1 couldn't remember who she was.

13:32.97    what_the_flip    And she's slowly taken steps back and this thing that's taken over her is just you know it. It is doing it slowly and it's painfully painfully for her. Um, and not only this you know when she would go to the hospital to get checkups. You know she.

13:38.14    William     Um.

13:51.80    what_the_flip    Some of her former coworkers were there and she all just end up yelling at them. You know, shouting them and and all sorts and these these were like good friends of hers. So um, there was 1 actually particular intense episode that actually happened um with her and our husband and where they were there actually traveling to the mayo clinic in. Minnesota and they were looking for like a specialized treatment. You know they're kind of going around looking for all these different alternative things and they wanted this kind of specialized treatment and and while they were there she she broke away from the doctors and climbed seven I think or 7 or 8 stories up to the edge of this parking ramp.

14:26.98    William     Fuck. Okay, oh.

14:28.97    what_the_flip    Um, and basically just started threatening to jump. And yeah, the the police got involved her husband were there. Um and they were like trying to talk you know don't jump. Don't jump what's going on what's going on eventually her husband actually broke through to her and then she came down but the voices.

14:37.16    William     Oh.

14:44.56    William     Shit shit I guess it must pretty horrible like kind of a foreign voice in your brain telling you to do stuff and you can't control when it's gonna happen stuff. Ah that must be kind of debilitating.

14:47.75    what_the_flip    Continued.

14:58.30    what_the_flip    Is yeah is is scary. Um, there was a a downtown church of of Christ in in cerce and it was you know held a prayer service for for statis after she had fell and among those. Actually attended this ceremony was this woman of called cindy lawson a pentecostal evangelical evangelist evangelic can never say that word. Yeah that's the 1 um as she performed about 10 exorcisms like in general and yeah pentecostal they don't call them.

15:25.95    William     Evangelist.

15:29.69    William     Oh really, oh cool. Okay I saw wo cool I found the fantasy summon as of.

15:34.96    what_the_flip    They couldn't demon castings castings. Yeah. Ah, yeah, but but basically it's basically the same kind of process of as ah, an exorcism and and cindy lawson she she wasn't a member of the church of christ and she had never met so statis but she had actually been hearing what's been going on about you know work got around and she felt very compelled to. Go and go and see her go and check her out and and I've got a quote here from cindy lawson saying the Lord spoke to me and told me to go to the hospital to cast the demons out of her I could feel something churning. That's what lawson said in this report so Stamatis had. Broken her back in 3 places punctured both lungs and broken her ribs. Um, you know after the fall and she said that the injuries indicate that she did not brace herself for impact none of the bones in her arms and legs were broken. So if you were pushed out of a window and you're falling down.

16:30.74    William     Oh okay, so it's a positive thing and yay it could ready for impact. Yeah.

16:37.21    what_the_flip    You probably would have your arms or legs kind of getting ready to brace. Yeah, but in this case, there wasn't that it was just a straight ragdoll. Just.

16:45.15    William     Is that is that a good thing because your body's not tense so he doesn't but it crumples with the effect out of add i't know. But.

16:51.11    what_the_flip    I I don't think so I I don't think so I think landing on your neck your head or your stomach or your back is probably worse at least with your arms and legs. There's ah, there's a moment of I guess suspension before you smash yourself onto I don't know but I wouldn't have thought so.

17:04.00    William     Boom.

17:10.38    what_the_flip    But she yeah she she had this weird ragdaw thing so it was almost like she couldn't control her body so he's like she jumped but then she couldn't even brace herself. Um, so anyway to when when stem stamatis actually arrived at the hospital. Originally cy lawson was there and she said that when she when she arrived the hospital you know stamaticti was really wide eyeed. Um, and cindy lawson looked to her and said I could see the demons like she said that straight away and this is that this isn't the first person that said that clearly the other mysterious woman said that as well. Um, and a friend oftomatis told her that lawson was there to pray over her and and. According to cindy lawson themattis or something inside us. She said something. There's something going on so either her or something inside her grow in response to this and said why are you here? Um, and.

17:57.83    William     Already Oh shit. Okay, oh that all that fuck you up that would.

18:08.79    what_the_flip    From this moment. Will we We we can. We can probably tick off this is a possession. This is a possession going on from what I can tell.

18:12.83    William     Da yeah um, it was only voices and like you know, like obviously like you know like an exist to head doesn't spin around and even in the last case like she was she she looked she was ill and stuff like that wasn't she like her.

18:28.27    what_the_flip    Yeah.

18:31.30    William     She wasn't eating very well and you could tell it and it you could see her face and stuff I but hers. It's just like a voice in her head then I'm seeing like it.

18:36.48    what_the_flip    Well yeah I think that there are a lot of similarities here and and we are going to cover a lot more possession demon possessions in future episodes this month because I've got some juicy ones but this I want to create a pattern here will because this this.

18:46.83    William     Like the great The best ones.

18:54.66    what_the_flip    I don't think we really had a um ah a kind of a I'm not sure I don't make any spoilers but I'm not sure what the outcome was from the last demon x' story that we covered but be interesting to see did they are.

19:04.18    William     I Don't think we solved it. These ones are hard to solve these ones because they're they're they're in it unexplained, you can't really, it's It's this a matter of supernatural and not oh so we're gonna try. But.

19:13.25    what_the_flip    Yeah, it is is hard but my my my expertise is is supernatural events I'm not I'm not as good as the the true crime stuff. So that's why together we are the the Mario and luigi of of molder and scally.

19:20.67    William     All right I have them. Ah, you need you but ah, that's a better reference. That's a lot better to 8 day.

19:32.29    what_the_flip    Um, yeah, the the chuck the chuckle brothers of those America for those american listeners and please type in Google in Youtube chuckle brothers and you'll see exactly what we're talking about so anyway so Cindy lawson's lawson she she brought out this kind of.

19:45.98    William     The.

19:51.90    what_the_flip    Kind of weird anointing oil and wiped it across Stamati's forehead you know kind of like getting her ready to to get exercised I guess lloyd in the name of Jesus I command these demons release her and come out of her and that she comes hurt to her right mind in Jesus's name and that's what she said. Said it very firmly very commanded and Stmatis is ah lard in the name of Jesus. Ah.

20:12.19    William     Sounds like a black lady. Ah.

20:22.20    what_the_flip    But ah, um, but so matters her her face her expression just completely changed when this was heard um the spirit of the lord fell into that room. Cindy Lawson kind of record. That's what she kind of said in that moment so there are like we was talking about.. There are kind of kind of symptoms associated with demon possession and these convulsions Hysteria erase memories.

20:42.14    William     Ah, true cool.

20:55.87    what_the_flip    Ah, these kind of things they can all kind of look very similar to the symptoms of conditions to epilepsy and Schizophrenia which we again we covered in 1 of the other our previous episodes but with exorcism rituals. Um, you know they can include you know you know actually restraining someone down. You know it can be quite harmful and sometimes. Deadly you know, especially for the mentally ill because this isn't something that you've kind of especially people that are very mentally ill you don't like muck around with that Stuff. You know you're kind of putting them in more distress and making them go even more crazy in some some regard. But in 2005 a romanian nun who had actually been treated for schizophrenia died of suffocation and dehydration during a rigorous orthodox exorcism. So again, this is like a misdiagnosis possibly where people are actually dying because you know these these exorisms are are brutal for the people involved. Um, and in 2000 7 a twenty two year old drowned and a fourteen year old was severely injured during a family centerered exorcism in new zealand so now these these things aren't just like yeah let's get an ex exist and get them exercises. It's like it's quite a dangerous occupation to. And practice to have um the same habits that shape what I do as a professor and psychiatrist open-mindness respect for evidence and compassion for suffering people led me to aid in the work of discerming attacks.

22:08.77    William     But it is yeah.

22:27.40    what_the_flip    By what I believe are evil spirits and just as critically differentiating these extremely rare events for medical conditions. This was written by a new york psychiatrist Dr. richard gallagher and he works for the catholic priest and kind of helped them tell the difference between those suffering from mental illnesses. And those who are possessed um and he wrote that in a column for the washington post in 2000 16 and he also said but careful observation of the evidence presented to me in my career has led me to believe that certain extremely uncommon cases can be explained no other way. So this is a man of science and he's kind of saying look There's some things that fit the pattern of science and and mental illness and it's some things that we cannot explain in any other way than to call it. Possession. So it's hard to kind of quantify I guess how many people have been treated with email possession in Arkansas which is where. Or or anywhere else to be honest and and they obviously we know that many religions believe supernatural entities can possess humans this this kind of goes out throughout all well but I guess most mainstream religions. Um, but the symptoms the treatments the methods of diagnosis. They all kind of vary in. Gallagher wrote that in some circles. There's ah I guess a tendency to see the devil everywhere. Um, and that some clergy men members are not as cautious as they should be when diagnosed in demon position. Um, and that's where the the catholic church has you know have to kind of. Make steps to limit these misdiagnosis because sometimes when you when you see 1 kind of demon possession. You think oh this person could have schizophrenia but less is called a demon possession just to make sure and that's not good for the for the patient. So right now does she have Schizophrenia does she have epilepsy or does she actually do. You know is she actually going through some type of possession.

24:22.67    William     She came out sorting stoppings now then like you know people like you got priest to diagnose over a doctor and stuff like that That's messed up.

24:29.00    what_the_flip    Oh yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah, of course hundred percent. Um, in fact, priests come to your house in the next week yeah to put put in demons putting the the legend of the over fiend in you.

24:37.55    William     Ah, really touch me up the strip The over fiend out. Um, oh ready. In Village into rapy and pillage in too many women.

24:54.85    what_the_flip    Yeah I think the priest's name's called it a cami. So um, hope it goes well well. But anyway so the um I guess I guess the Catholic kind of church.

24:59.80    William     Oh it is right? ah.

25:12.61    what_the_flip    Written doctrine kind of says that illness especially psychological illness should be handled through medical science first. Um and that before an exorcism is performed. It's important to assert that 1 is dealing with the presence of the evil 1 and not just an illness so this is quite. Ah, prominent kind of I guess element to this story is really understanding what is and requires an exorcism what requires medical attention so before I get some more thoughts of yours will that the vatican actually expanded its annual exorcism course in 2018? um.

25:45.53    William     Annual X's of course.

25:49.23    what_the_flip    Yeah I mean because it's's it's ah it's a recurring thing. It happens all the time and citing and increased the demand. You know a lot of people in 2000 a there was more kind of demonic possession I guess cases that were popping up so this kind of increased it and a man by the name of Josh stel. Who was a catholic priest in little rock and said this due to a a growling lack of faith in god and increased interest in the occult in modern society so he was kind of blaming that these demons are coming into people because no less people are believing in. You know the catholic.

26:25.60    William     Ah, is that like is that when Santa but people don't believe in Santa and you can't fly anymore and stuff like that is it like that. Okay see.

26:25.99    what_the_flip    And christian kind of perspective. Um, yeah, pretty much. Yeah, um, so I guess the demon possession is not really recognized as a medical condition by. Know the american psychiatric association or the international statistical classification of diseases and related how so this is is. It's a pseudo I guess a pseudoscience you could say in Stamatis you know she was she was forty nine years old she said and that before she fell um lawson actually exercised her.

26:56.76    William     Yeah.

27:07.49    what_the_flip    Um, she was diagnosed with a rare medical imbalance called um Pop poor pop poor for Poorre Faria that causes seizures abdominal pain nervous system dysfunction and mental confusion. Um.

27:21.72    William     Oh so she was kind of fucked up like well like kind of mentally big. Oh oh, got you here going but them.

27:26.94    what_the_flip    That's that's what she was diagnosed as yeah, that's what that's what she was actually diagnosed and this is why I'm saying it's it's really important for you know these cases for people to say is this a mental illness or is this actually a you know something more something Supernatural is really because if if she never got diagnosed.

27:38.93    William     Yeah.

27:44.66    what_the_flip    Or she never gets diagnosed. You. The treatments won't be the right treatments for her and you know that can resort in death. But even though she did get diagnosed Well you know she's a former nurse She knows about this medical Stuff. She still believes to this day that she was possessed. And she said in the medical world. They need to put a name to it you know and you know speaking of possession They don't understand because they never dealt with these types of demons. So How are they gonna fight against something that they that you don't know how to fight that you don't understand and then Cindy Lawson shared her settlement. Um, sentiment as well and saying if most people knew it was a demon possession thing. They would seek out that help but it's so hard to convince people that it is that is what is going on.

28:32.70    William     Yeah, it's quite interesting. Isn't it like I mean ah I watch on Tv and know like like yeah Er R programs and stuff like that they have like churches and stuff. But that's it's not to do is. It's not really to do with exism and stuff that's more of a a religion faith thing right.

28:48.66    what_the_flip    Yeah.

28:51.78    William     So yeah, be. You'd be interesting because it's 1 of that. It's 1 of those weird subjects isn't it that you can't really like if if you have that sort of thing in a hospital or something that that it it mean like do you think they'd be like they' create like some sort of hysteria because that means they Believe. So at some level they believe in in monsters and the devil and stuff like that. It's kind of 1 of those weird like middle grounds that it's hard to like I don't think I'll lover. Do it though.

29:15.65    what_the_flip    Yeah.

29:23.52    what_the_flip    Well well, ah, after um, yeah I mean cindy a lawson sorry I can say cindy crawford cindy lawson she she actually performed the exors on on Stmatis again properly? Um, and um. After that Stemais seem to be completely fine and normal. Um and then her family members. You know they saw like an immediate change afterwards and she hasn't ever come back to that she hasn't come back to that mental illness she hasn't she's she she's been I guess cured you could say um.

29:50.21    William     On Wow That's cool. Yeah.

30:01.99    what_the_flip    But I guess you know she still you know has paralysis and stuff from falling. Um, but yeah, that's why she believes that she she really does believe that she was it. Yeah, so so if this so this is this is kind of where the mystery is I guess is we've got this woman.

30:07.78    William     Oh ah, she was she she was exercised and now she hasn't got those.

30:21.41    what_the_flip    Does a crazy act Jumps out of a windows. She Claims. It's not her. She's been hearing voices. She's talking with a demonic voice then this Cindy Lawson person comes and is trying to exercise her the medical say you know these are the things that you suffer From. These are the treatments. Nothing's really happening. Nothing's going Away. Lawson comes does a proper exorcist exorcism and then everything is fine. Everything goes back to no 1 she hasn't ever returned back to that state Now we need to solve This is this is this supernatural or is this medical. I Don't see how this could be epilepsy and and schizophrenia and things like that if it just went away because that that's never been on record that that I know of of these mental illnesses is kind of just going away.

31:13.95    William     It I guess it I guess there's a third category in there where it's like placebo as well. I'm not saying like it's all like mental but it could could be like let's say the the demon like she's.

31:21.79    what_the_flip    Um, yeah.

31:33.19    William     The priest or the the exorcist like has mentally fortitudeed her brain like because you know they attack the so weak- minded you know like they attack your brain like they attack you when you're least like yeah yeah, when you're down. It's just like if you if you're like ah.

31:43.60    what_the_flip    Yeah, when you're down. Yeah.

31:51.44    William     It's It's still what the preach was saying like I believe so it's just like I believe that the I but like low. Yeah yeah, so like you know like her brain has sort of been mentally more fortitude fortified to.

31:54.20    what_the_flip    I Can't believe who.

32:05.61    what_the_flip    With it. Yeah.

32:08.30    William     Stop this sort of thing. So it's kind of like that the priests might not done anything but just motivated a more does that make sense. Yeah yeah.

32:16.60    what_the_flip    Yeah, yeah, kind of you're feeding into her own. Um her own narrative I guess and I think the mind is a really fragile mysterious thing and it can it can switch on you and. Everything that happened with me in Dubai I you know again for listeners that are listening to this for for the first time, please go and check out the episode. It's quite 1 of our early episodes but just type in the buy story out what the flip podcast dot com in the search. It was 1 of my favorites but like I I still don't know and I don't want to.

32:37.96    William     Um, so best show we've done.

32:52.10    what_the_flip    Turn the talking point to that episode I want I still want to talk about this but I don't know if what I experienced was just meant there was some type of mental breakdown that I had but I I mean I was stressed at the time initially I was stressed but this happened over a course of a year and a half um and during that time my stress had gone.

32:58.87    William     Like stress or something. Yeah, yeah.

33:08.71    William     But that's sort that sort part of the demon like the demons plan The fact that you're like you're away from you. You were away from your wife. You know you're you're kind of not you've not got your partner. You're not mentally strong and that's kind of when these like if you want to go down the supernatural. This is these these are the town and demons.

33:10.88    what_the_flip    Um.

33:26.51    what_the_flip    But I never heard voices or it was more. It was hallucinations and physical things happening to me and physical things happening to objects.

33:26.76    William     Would attack you you know I mean like the peak times.

33:40.22    William     Yeah.

33:42.99    what_the_flip    I didn't and I Yeah anyway we don't need to talk about that I mean that's just the whole story is is in is in the previous episode so and listeners can really listen to that is really good but well we need to kind of per per full stop on this. We need to sign these papers. We need to we to write this report out.

33:54.68    William     Closed open this I think this this this all of our all of these demon possession stories will culminate into a ah larger. Um. Sort conclusion that will it's like the marvelous cine ama universe ourll link together and then that we'll come up with like the ultimate solution that connects this 1 to that 1 to to the next 1 yeah, it's that the pre it's like the you know the false first hulk movie where it's like it's been acknowledged, but.

34:12.37    what_the_flip    Ah.

34:18.65    what_the_flip    So my my dubai story is kind of like the first avenger captain in America. Yeah, if it is set up the universe. Basically so are you saying that these demons are all gonna kind of interact and they're gonna.

34:29.42    William     No gift to shit. Yeah I think I I think there's a limit yeah was acceptable and that portallo in the old. But um, some.

34:38.51    what_the_flip    Form Be avengious adventures of just the demonic Ra is this random murdo was it. Um.

34:48.63    William     The others go out of jackulness. Yeah, and you've got 1 with like a big hammer and 1 with their shield and stuff like that. So the demon alternatives a what story.

34:57.54    what_the_flip    So if if if this if this so you're saying all of this is going to connect you you think at some point we're going to find the puzzle the piece of the puzzle that's going to connect and tie all of these stories together. Wow.

35:07.50    William     Um, yeah, because this 1 the case is it's is too hard to kind of pinpoint. What would go what is going on but like it's going to slowly Unravel all the other. Like similarities with all the other possession stories that we've had we'll coalesce into something that will become the ultimate solution. Um, ah.

35:30.21    what_the_flip    This is why you are detective will because any other person you know and included me would look at this report and and look at it like this is a report's cause some similarities from other reports that we had let's solve it. But what you're saying is this report. We we're we're focusing on the wrong thing. The thing that we need to focus on isn't this story per se is how the story fits into the bigger narrative and that is the the world of demons the the demonic world. Um, yeah, sorry dude.

35:47.38    William     Yeah. Yeah, this is 1 of the strings. Yeahm yeah, you can't jump to conclusion. It's like this I'm I'm a professional do you know I mean like can like and I got all the information and um I need This is just a small portion of the information.

36:08.37    what_the_flip    Are you like constantine like are you that ah have you ah you like walk around with this like Don caster accent just walking around with your with your little trench coat. Yeah.

36:10.30    William     And I need the.

36:19.35    William     Little little stretch beautiful book and like a packet of cigarettes and just kind.

36:26.98    what_the_flip    But not the cigarettes but those little white stick suits that used to get yeah the and like let's walk around and like just like do like random little spells and find demons because this this is what I feel like I feel like that's the next step up from because I think detective War and inspector advocate deserve a promotion I think I think we've we've we've we've.

36:27.71    William     The chocolate Sweet. That.

36:42.39    William     Yeah I think so yeah enough to mar our worth. Yeah.

36:46.54    what_the_flip    We've solved magnitude of mysteries. Yeah I think you should be constantine will that I dont know what that and I don't know what I would be with willtonstein.

36:52.97    William     What what will Unston take want oneston steam.

37:04.97    what_the_flip    Um, yeah, but okay.

37:04.97    William     Yeah I think this is part of a bigger story that we'll connect front like I guess if we want to wrap this in this episode in a bow though I would say like it's hi more of a mental thing but I think there's it's deeper and there's more to it and it's like there's an ne credit to this that we haven't.

37:23.22    what_the_flip    I Think it might be both I think we're thinking of this to binary I think and why can't we go that duality and say no this is actually about both I think she had she was having a bit of a mental breakdown because of you know her job and stuff like that and.

37:24.67    William     Like.

37:41.14    what_the_flip    And it could take any kind of toll on you. Um, and also in hospitals. There can be some type of viruses that can I don't know. Yeah, there are some viruses or parasites that say that can affect your mood So I'm not sure if I don't know what the hygiene was or the hospital if there were some.

37:41.64    William     Yeah.

37:55.53    William     Oh dear.

37:59.86    what_the_flip    Parasites that got in there or if there's like any weird animal like farming intact contaminations in in I don't know what it is but there can be parasites that can affect the brain can affect the mind can affect your personality your memory your behaviors your emotional states I Think so. I Think there is a medical side to this and I think she was definitely suffering from something but um, this demon stuff isn't something that just you can kind of just dismiss I Think there's something there. There was something tickling her from the inside.

38:31.12    William     Trying to.

38:32.20    what_the_flip    And stripping stripping down in front of her parent. You know family in law and stuff. That's that's not just schizophrenia. That's that's not just you know poor for for per Furia. Whatever it's called um, that yeah there was something else there.

38:40.80    William     Yeah, something a bit more messed up.

38:51.32    what_the_flip    Um, but I feel like we're not gonna yeah like you said we we're not gonna hear the end of this I think in some of our other episodes we got upcoming. There's gonna be some more and we we might be tying these together.

38:54.89    William     Now.

39:01.70    William     Yeah, 1 big connected universe and this is just phase 1 of the of the sny of of the the wilcot.

39:10.94    what_the_flip    The will Cut. We've done this Again. We've got another so mystery I Guess Solved. We've got a pin in this 1 It's gonna be quite interesting. What the future has coming up with some of our episodes but guys. Thanks again for listening and as always you can head over to what the flip podcast dot com. Access to all of our exclusive content from videos news updates show notes on our episodes including this 1 and ways to interact with us where you can suggest topics ask questions or more We love to hear you write into us. We Love to have some suggestion topics and we you know anything you say guys. We always will. Read out on our flipping out episodes regardless of what it is now how matter how silly now how stupid how cool how awesome it Is. We will write it out and and talk about it and we will give you a shoutout as Well. If you want us to so again, that's what the flippo cost dot Com. We've got all the information there and with that. I've been alex.

40:08.40    William     I've been detective Well ah were out.

40:09.56    what_the_flip    Peace.